Episode 16: Corporate Boards and the DEI Imperative

RW2 Enterprises founder Ron Williams shares lessons on building inclusive corporate boards, including self-advocacy, board oversight vs. management function and shared priorities across a board.

Transcript    

Chris Riback: Ron, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate your time.

Ron Williams: That's my pleasure, it's great to be here with you.

Chris Riback: Alex and I have been looking forward to this. Why don't we get right into it. Ron, how should a board think about DEI as a priority? When and where should they get involved? Why is it important? And also what typically gets in the way?

Ron Williams: Well, that's a very important question. I would say, for boards, it should be thought about as a business imperative. That every company that wants to grow its market share, be a force and a presence in its market has to understand the customers that it serves. In order to do that, the company's leadership, companies board, the employee's workforce should be fully inclusive of the communities that it serves. And so the business case for it is really the fundamentally important reason for it. Now McKenzie's done some great research on this that demonstrates that diverse companies, when they're diverse on gender, ethnicity, a host of other factors, outperform companies that are not. The quality of your decision making appears to be better. And so if you are on the board and you're trying to figure out your job is to ensure the long term prosperity and success of the business, paying attention to this is a core part of your responsibility.

Chris Riback: Is there anything that gets in the way when you think about the opportunities, what are the typical obstacles?

Ron Williams: I would say the typical obstacles center around the fact that raising this topic is often a difficult topic for board members. And I think one of the things I see is that boards have to avoid the woman director being the advocate for women and being the only advocate in the room. They have to avoid the Hispanic director or the Asian director or the African American director being the only director who's concerned with these issues. So what gets in the way is simply lack of familiarity and sometimes personable uncomfortableness with this. There's also a question between what's the board's role and what's management's role in this. And where does the board need to exercise its oversight and review of policies and procedures separate from worrying about the implementation and carrying it out as a management function.

Dr. Alexandria White: You mentioned board, you mentioned employees, employers. I want to talk a little bit about the healthcare industry and labor shortage. We know your wonderful history with Aetna. At Reboot Accel, we have been doing more and more consulting with healthcare companies. We recently did some consulting with directors of nursing. And they're all exhausted and stressed in talking about labor shortage. So how do you think inclusive management technologies ties to retaining healthcare professionals?

Ron Williams: I think the fundamental question we have to recognize is that we owe our caregivers a huge debt of gratitude for what they have done during this horrific pandemic. And so I would start with the big thank you to all of them, whether they're physicians, nurses, doctors, nurses aids, you name it, they have done a fabulous job for us. The reality is that the more an organization can be attractive to a diverse workforce, the easier it is to retain, the easier it is to recruit, and easier it is to keep employees engaged in the organization when they look up and see others like themselves who have been able to achieve senior level positions on the basis of their performance and contribution to the organization. So I think given the shortage, given the demands for labor, there's a really important role that organizations can play by being a welcoming place that all people feel comfortable. I think there's another dimension of increasing the supply in helping individuals who may think those occupations are beyond their reach, really understand the path to entering these professions.

Dr. Alexandria White: You said a statement, how can we get more people interested in this profession when it's not on their radar? I think that's a great thing to consider because there's so many people retiring and they're exhausted. What might companies do? This is just for healthcare. I'm just thinking about this. What can healthcare companies do to increase the pool of applicants who might initially not have thought about working in the field?

Ron Williams: This is a great example of what I think of as public private partnerships. Reaching out to the community colleges, reaching out to the high schools and really helping children who are at those early years of their education, they're finishing high school, they're entering a community college and they're trying to make choices. And they might not have that on their radar screen. And so this is a place where reaching out, being engaged in the community and actually showing people a path, whether that path could be something like a pharmacy technician, which is a great entry point. I've seen many young people who work next to a pharmacy technician and they would come in one day and say, "I could do that. I could learn to be a pharmacist." And start down that path.

Chris Riback: Ron, as you know, this is not my first conversation with you. I've had the great pleasure of getting to hear from you about your background and why the topics that we're discussing today are important to you. Could you retell me and this audience part of that. Why does this topic matter to you? And then two, I'm sure that you've noticed at least in the last several years, many other CEOs are starting to catch up to you in terms of understanding that inclusive leadership is something that matters. Why do you think it's starting to become increasingly important and increasingly recognized by other CEOs? Maybe it's just that they all read your book?

Ron Williams: Well, I certainly hope so. I would say that, one, I've been extremely fortunate in my life and my career. And I often say that I was probably one of the least likely people in the world to ever become the CEO of a Fortune 77 company. And I got there really by virtue of a lot of help, a lot of luck, but really a refusal to let other people define who I was and what I could become. As a result of that, I have always had a very strong, deep interest in development. In leadership. I have eight people who have worked for me, who are CEOs. Half of them are women. These are smart, capable women who would've done well, but with advocacy and sponsorship and mentoring, they got the support that many people seek out. In my household, dinner table talk was not about what happened at the law firm or in the office that day.

And so I think we all have this obligation to help others who are not as fortunate as we are see beyond their horizon. For me, that's one of my areas of deep personal interests. And I see a lot more CEOs recognizing, selfishly in the context of your question, there is a war for talent. There are not enough people who can replace the generation that's leaving, back to one of the earlier questions. And so if you want to get more than your share, you better be a desirable destination who looks after employees, who has development, who really nurtures the talent that is embedded in a diverse population.

Dr. Alexandria White: I want to go back to the personal part. I remember listening to you on Chris's podcast and at the Agilon town hall and various YouTube videos. And I look at this African American man, and I listen to your stories. And as a first generation college student, as a first generation terminal degree holder, I'm the first in a lot of my family, paternal and maternal.

And I look at you and I think, what is his story? Who mentored him? How many times was he the only in a room? And I'd just like to unpack or hear some words of wisdom of how you dealt with that. And did you have mentors and coaches or people that you could just call and vent to? I remember your story about someone asking you if you were the help at, I think it was an airport. And any advice to people who might just be the only, like me, whether you're the only woman in a room, the only minority in the room, the only person with a disability. I'd love to hear any words of wisdom, Ron.

Ron Williams: Well, I would say that, one, throughout my career, I have been very often and most frequently the only one in the room. And I learned early that I was not going to make it my problem, I was going to make it someone else's problem who was concerned about it. And the best advice I ever got from someone was when they draw a circle that excludes you, draw a bigger circle and include yourself. And I give examples to young professionals who don't come from backgrounds where they played golf or went sailing.

And people who work together and you go on a meeting and people are talking about, "What did you do this weekend?" "Well, I went sailing." And you have no idea what they're talking about.

Dr. Alexandria White: I don't. No.

Ron Williams: And what I explain to them is don't worry about it. Go over, start a conversation. How did you learn to sail? When did you get interested in it? And really include yourself, and I like to use the phrase elbow your way to the table. Don't let people exclude you.

Dr. Alexandria White:    I love it.

Ron Williams: You belong there. You earned it.

Dr. Alexandria White: Love it. Elbow your way to the table. I'm writing that down.

Chris Riback: Yes, I am too. This isn't where I was meaning to go, Ron, but does that ever end? Does the elbowing ever end? Or do you reach a stage as you have where maybe you start to elbow even more on behalf of others?

Ron Williams: Well, I think the answer's that you have an obligation to help the next generation actually go beyond where you are today. And so I spend a good deal of time supporting education in a wide variety of ways, but also individual mentoring and coaching of individuals, many of whom are in C-suites across America, who really are trying to figure out, "How do I get to the corner office?" Or, "I'm almost to the C-suite and what do I need to learn? What do I need to do? What do I need to demonstrate?"

So the answer is no, it's not that you stop the elbowing. It's that it's less about me because I've done what I've done, it speaks for itself. It's really helping others who can benefit from your perspective and experience both individually and more importantly, collectively.

Dr. Alexandria White: For me, I didn't see a lot of women of color in my profession, or I didn't have them as mentors. So it's incumbent upon me to do that for someone else to be that mentor, that sponsor, because I didn't have it. And so just hearing him reiterate that is just so impactful.

Ron Williams: Yes. And I think one of the points that I talk about, because it's really, I think an important issue is when companies begin to focus on this. The whole question of how does the balance of the workforce feel about the emphasis on these areas. And one of the points I try to stress is this is about increasing competition. And in some instances, competition has not been fair. And that's just the way it was. And one of the examples I use is, I'm old enough to remember when to be a police officer you had to be about six feet tall. And people figured out over time that had very little to do with being a good police officer. And so all of a sudden you found the person who pretty much had a lock on the job, they were 6'2, they would've been in the military, they had a good record.

All of a sudden they're competing against a dramatically broader set of candidates. And if that person wasn't picked the answer could easily be, "I'm not the right demographic." No, the answer is we better understand the real critical criteria for success. And in that competitive arena, there are other well qualified candidates, which you have to compete against. And so that's a fundamentally important issue that I think is important to talk about when we talk about these areas. We're broadening the competition.

Chris Riback: I have heard similar stories about women seeking to become air force pilots. I don't have the facts exactly right here, but the dimensions of the cockpit were built such that they didn't fit smaller body sizes properly. And that was an obstacle, I believe it was to women becoming air force pilots. But to your point, criteria that had nothing to do with capability, skill, insight, intelligence, reflexes, anything that you might need, simply that the infrastructure wasn't built properly because it was built based on presumptions decades, decades, previous.

Ron, we're listening to you and it's inspiring.  I'm picking up on about ways that any of us have to continue to pay things forward.

And that has a real positive sense to it. I want to ask you about the other side. I want to ask you about some of the challenges particularly in today's political environment, where companies that are seeking to take action, run into some obstacles. The one that comes to mind most often for most of us recently was Disney in Florida. And there's now, we've all seen the articles, questions about who wants to be the next CEO to put their neck out there.

So that balance, how should a CEO think about balancing pushing forward, integrating ideals or a point of view into their business versus not because of the environment that we're in?

Ron Williams: It's a very complicated issue for CEOs, but one they cannot avoid. And I encourage CEOs to really look at the mission, the values, the culture of the company, and to recognize that businesses in general make great foils for politicians. And you have to understand that politicians have fundamentally different objectives, and it's basically to get elected, period. The companies have to recognize they can't take a position on every conceivable issue that their employees might wish them to. And this is where laying out to the employees, what they stand for, where they will take a position, and sometimes the range of options that the company has. And also, the CEOs have an obligation to build those relationships in advance.

My experience was when I met a politician, if I had not seen them personally five or six times, they didn't know who I was and couldn't remember who I was. And so you can't show up for the first time with an issue that you want to deal with. You've got to build up that relationship with them.

Now, sometimes the way the company has to play the issue, it's a phone call quietly to the right people on the right committees in advance. And you have to be for something, it doesn't pay to be against things. You have to figure out what you're for. You also quite honestly have to be mindful of being used by both sides of an issue. One side will characterize it one way. Another side will characterize it another way. Both may be right, or both may be wrong. And so you really have to have wise counsel that can help you sort out when and where can you, and should you insert yourself.

Dr. Alexandria White: I want to interject, Ron. We started off with board members. So what about those board members that have political agendas too? Yes, we talked about the politician. We talked about your company. But there are board members who also have a lot of power over CEOs and C-suite. So how do you navigate those individuals as well?

Ron Williams: Yes, I think that's a great question. I've been a part of many of these tough conversations. And I've explained to people that I was almost 17 years old before my father could actually have voted in the county he was raised in.

And so that was a constant topic of dinner table conversation in my house. And that's experience other board members didn't have. And I think we had many robust conversations. But there was a practical reality with other companies that I spoke with, other board members, that some of these companies, you are in a regulated industry. You've got to go before the Senate, the House for rate regulation in various things.

And so there are in reality, practical constraints on what companies can do. I think boards can have very robust debates. The reality is that they're to represent the shareholders and the board doesn't and can't always do what you think they should personally do. Where they can't do it publicly, a lot of times they're able to do it quietly through contributions, donations, and legal support. So I would say, when you don't see companies doing things that you think they ought to be doing, you should not presume that there was not a very robust, and in some instances heated discussion in the boardroom, but a recognition of their role from a shareholder perspective that they're there to preserve the long term viability of the company.

Dr. Alexandria White: Thank you. So you're a board member. Let's talk about Agilon Health, a company deeply committed to building an inclusive culture. I've been working as a consultant with Agilon close to two and a half years, and I can say that they're deeply committed. What initiatives have had the greatest impact that you've seen Agilon has been doing or plan to do? And as a board member, how are you measuring this?

Ron Williams: I think in terms of impact, the company's leadership has to be reflective. The board is reflective in terms of women, ethnicities of different types on the board and the senior management team as well. And what the company has been doing is really highly focused on being an employer of choice, a place that people can get the development and the opportunity. And because it's growing so rapidly, it is a great place for talent of all types, and all genders, and all ethnicities to be able to build a great career. The town hall meetings that they have, have been very effective. I've done a few of those sessions myself. And I think the employee engagement groups, which they've started will be another important contributors. I think they started with the African American group. They'll have a Hispanic group. They'll have groups for working parents. A way for employees to come together and make certain that the company is listening with great fidelity to their particular issues. And they can give us counsel and guidance that can help make us a better business.

Dr. Alexandria White: You mentioned the employee resource groups at Agilon. They also have a wonderful mentoring program that they're doing. Can you give us the name of one of your mentors, and how they impacted you?

Ron Williams: Well, I laugh because my first mentor is the CEO, Steve Sell.

Dr. Alexandria White: We like Steve

Chris Riback: Very well played, Ron. That's-

Dr. Alexandria White: Very well.

Chris Riback: Talk about the political. And just to show you're not the only one who can play that game, my mentor is Dr. Alexandria White. Ron, thank you. Thank you for your time, for your insights and for the work that you, not only do, but I know from having, again, had the benefit of listening to you previously, that I know that you've done for many, many decades now. Thank you so much for your time.

Ron Williams:  Okay. My pleasure. Thank you very much. Have a good day.

Dr. Alexandria White: Thank you.