Episode 23: The Art of Effective Listening: Andre Joyner, JC Penney

JC Penney Chief Human Resources Officer Andre Joyner explains how to create listening organizations — and outlines concrete steps companies can take to increase employee engagement.

Transcript

Chris Riback: I'm Chris Riback. This is Call In with Dr. Alexandria White. We discuss business leadership in our time of social change when to call in, when to call out, and how to build sustainable business value today.

Before our conversation though, an ask from us to you. We hope you like these call in conversations. And if so, we'd appreciate if you take a moment, go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, and if you're so moved, leave a five-star review. The ratings really matter. They go a long way to helping other people find the podcast.

Dr. Alexandria White: Our show is brought to you by Clayton, Dubilier & Rice, which is committed to a more diverse and inclusive future. Let's call in.

Chris Riback: Andre, thanks so much for joining us. We're grateful for your time.

Andre Joyner: Thank you.

Chris Riback: I'd love to start with the overview of JCPenney and your current DEI initiatives and how they align with the company's mission and values.

Andre Joyner: Sure, sure. And if I had to sort of step back, I'd start with our enterprise strategic priorities, and one of them is to develop a drive in inclusive culture. And so our work in the DE&I space is anchor to our strategic priorities as a business. A third of our customer base is BIPOC, over half of our workforce. So our efforts are pretty integrated and woven into how we win as an organization. And so our DE&I efforts are largely tied to how do we not only identify, recruit, and select people who are inspired by and connected to our purpose and vision, but that those individuals believe in and are connected to that vision as it relates to inclusivity in developing a cultural connectivity. And so our DE&I efforts are some of which you might hear at any number of organizations. And some are uniquely, I think differentiators because of how JCPenney as a business operates and what we have as advantages in our space.

So yes, we are focused on how leaders lead themselves and their teams and doing it in an inclusive way. And we're focusing on developing a culture of belonging that's big in our organization at this moment. Something that I feel is a bit maybe different and closer to a passion point I have is how are we thinking about economic empowerment in BIPOC communities, particularly with black and brown women. And so the work that we're doing in the JCP beauty space, the work that we're doing in salon is a bit more tied to how we multiply the impact we can have in communities. And that's something that I'm looking to lean a little bit more into.

Chris Riback: Do you think about DEI as an internal employee culture JCPenney advancing your internal effort, and/or do you view it as something external? Because you're in the consumer business, you've got customers coming in every day. How do you think about that internally versus externally?

Andre Joyner: The answer to your question is yes, because our customer represents our associate base and our associate base represents our customer base. I don't think these things are separate. I think you're much more powerful as an organization if you understand, if I'm trying to build customer love and loyalty tied to a brand, that that's not any different than building associate love and loyalty inside of an organization. So that sense of connection and belonging and being valued matters. When I first started with JCPenney, I was interviewing a very talented black woman for a role and she was working with a very well-known organization, and I was trying to convince her to join me. And she was amazing. And at one point I was wondering, well, why is she interested in JCPenney in particular? And I asked her the question, why do you want to leave where you are to come here?

And she said something that was profound because I was new to JCPenney and I don't think I appreciated it. She said, when I was growing up, this was the only place that my mother shop where she felt seen and felt heard. And it stuck with me. It was a crystallizing moment because it cemented something that I kind of felt but didn't really appreciate. And this is a daughter of someone who experienced her mother's experience, and it stayed with her through her entire career. And so you don't separate those things, in my opinion. I think they live together.

Dr. Alexandria White: Andre, I have to amplify that. I have roots in Mississippi and when I would go visit my grandmother in Mississippi, she would drive over an hour to the only JCPenney to get her church outfits and her hat because-

Andre Joyner: I love this.

Dr. Alexandria White: They would send her catalogs and they were nice to her and they had those big church hats and suits and she said, "Oh, they treat black people nice. Over at that JCPenney." It was in Greenwood, Mississippi.

Andre Joyner: Oh my goodness.

Dr. Alexandria White: I'll never forget it. I would come down during the summers from Chicago and I do have an affinity for JCPenney because of how I remember they treated my grandmother.

Andre Joyner: That's a powerful story. And that really encapsulates what the brand seeks to do.

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes. Speaking of the history of JCPenney, I am a millennial in the history of a place and how they treat people is near and dear to me. And whether I'm going to spend my dollars there. I think our business leaders who are listening to that understand that. That whether you have ESG, corporate social responsibility or DEI, it is attached to how people spend their dollars. And so how do you connect your current DEI initiatives with these new socially conscious customers like myself? And what are you doing about that?

Andre Joyner: Yes, it's a very good question. And any number of organizations, I'm sure you speak to, we have ESG efforts in place and we've done some of the studies to try to figure out what matters most to our customer. Does it matter what sustainability efforts might matter most to our customer or how might they view when as an organization we engage in topics that are outside of maybe the retail sphere and where organizations lean into. And I think you were getting after this, there's a growing expectation that organizations extend beyond the products and services they sell, right? And people are looking for some degree of substance authenticity and a point of view from that organization. And what was interesting about the study that we did, which surprised me but maybe shouldn't have, is what mattered most to our customer across the ESG spectrum was how we treated the associates.

So yes, whether my cotton is organic or sustainable or whether the packaging is done a certain way, those things matter, but they didn't matter more than how you treated the people that worked there. And that has helped shape how we think about our ESG efforts in general. Because you can't say we care without showing you care. And yes, I can put something on a label that tells you I sourced it in a particular way, but if I'm not treating the people in that environment well, I think you run the risk of disconnecting, you run the risk of being inauthentic. So I try to make sure our DE&I efforts are coupled in that regard. If we care about the things that we're discussing from an ESG standpoint, does it show up in how we care about the associates who live in the spaces that we operate in? And that was profound for me because I don't think I would've guessed that. I would've thought maybe some other items would've mattered most, but that is what matters most.

Dr. Alexandria White: So let's toot your own horn right now. What is JCPenney doing for its associates? I mean everything from a particular type of leave to BRGs or ERGs. Go ahead. Tell them.

Andre Joyner: Yes. So we-

Dr. Alexandria White: What you are doing.

Andre Joyner: What we focused on and launched last year was our associate value proposition. Not necessarily an uncommon thing, but four areas of focus. One is creating shared purpose. We wanted to connect our associates to the causes that matter to them and us, to the communities that we serve and that they support and in ways that matter to them. So how do we create shared purpose? The second was in broad speak, wellbeing. How do you care about the whole person? We can talk about that in greater detail, but the whole person meaning I care about you whether you stay with us or not. So how do I think about the offerings that we provide you agnostic of whether they only benefit as of the organization, so wellbeing. And the third would be personal growth and development. And these are the things you might expect from a career path and standpoint, but it also means growth and development. Again, whether someone stays with you or not, how do I make investments in you that may not tie you to my organization but may tie your heart to the organization?

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes.

Andre Joyner: It may get you back here three years later after you've taken whatever next step you take. And the last one, which I actually think has been critically important, maybe overlooked in organizations, which is empowering individuals and teams. This is voice. This is how do you make listening your superpower? How do you make sure you create enough moments to listen to your workforce? Because they're going to tell you two things when you're off track that you're off track, and they're going to tell you how you can get back on track when you are. It only works if you create open to a dialogue and you make it safe.

Dr. Alexandria White: Psychological safety, we like to call it. Yes.

Andre Joyner: 100%. Those have been our four efforts. Now it shows up maybe to get after your tangible parts of your question. We launched wellness days last year, just points in the year where associates largely tell us what times of the year work for them and that they want, days where we are closing the offices, where associates take time away to recharge and reconnect. A lot of organizations have learned, it's easier when everyone's gone to really take time away. And so the reason why we moved to wellness days was that we just sort of sprinkle them throughout the year and we'll attach them to certain parts of the year or certain times of week for our associates. That's gone over very well. We began a partnership with a childcare organization to provide flexible discounted childcare options.

Dr. Alexandria White: Now this is profound.

Andre Joyner: Yes.

Dr. Alexandria White: I like this.

Andre Joyner: Started with our supply chain. So what happened, if you think about retail, let's say 12 to 18 months ago, it was very difficult to find hourly workers to work in stores in the supply chain, it was very difficult. So what happened? You had a core workforce. They had to do more. They worked more hours, more overtime, they committed more to the organization. And one of the biggest issues we heard was not that associates didn't want to do that, but it was difficult for them to do simple things like have childcare options and childcare options when I'm working a second or third shift.

Or how do you accommodate, I'm extending myself to give you what you need as an employer. Are you listening to my needs because I need less expensive childcare. It needs to be safe, it needs to be off hours because I don't pay for it necessarily for a month. I might need it for two days because I'm working overtime. I might need it for a window of time. So we started a partnership with a company called WeeCare, and that is the offering that we provide for our associates. And that went over very well as well with our associates.

Dr. Alexandria White: I want to reiterate that. That is amazing because we know that women and people of color wanted to continue to work from home because of daycare.

Andre Joyner: 100%.

Dr. Alexandria White: And so we know the repercussions for that, not seeming stereotyping that you're not dedicated to the job, but there are other underlying factors. I can't afford daycare or I can't find someone to watch my child that is trustworthy. And so for JCPenney to be proactive with that, that is amazing. Thank you. Thank as a single mother. Thank you.

Andre Joyner: Yes. And it's a good call and you really give credit to the associate base because if you just listen to them, you don't have to be bright. You just have to be willing to listen.

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes.

Chris Riback: Listening is so hard in so many companies. And I'm wondering, Andre, for other companies and other leaders who would be listening to you and listening to this, were these programs, you've been in the role now at JCPenney, am I right? It's about 18 months as we're talking right now?

Andre Joyner: Correct.

Chris Riback: I guess a two-part question. One, is it one size fits all? Or what guidance would you give others in terms of how to listen to their unique situation? And then two, besides the anecdotal, how do you know that the programs that you're implementing are successful? How do you know that they are benefiting your business? A lot of people like to talk about metrics and measurements that might be how you make such a judgment, but maybe you make those judgments outside of metrics and measurements.

Andre Joyner: So the first part of your question around whether it's a one size fits all. I really don't think it's a one size fits all. As a matter of fact, I think part of the reason why we went to our associate value proposition with different efforts, whether it be mental health efforts or childcare efforts or we adjusted our travel policy because when people travel, if they work out, we didn't make it easy for them to work out when they traveled and stayed at hotels. So I'm going to make it easy for you to pay for your one day at the gym because you traveled this week. Now that might seem like an odd thing, but I can tell you for people who travel who for us who don't get a chance to maybe operate the way they normally would, that was a big thing for them.

So our approach is a bit of cast, a bit of a wider net. There are situations where you know the density of your workforce pushes a topic to a higher level. I have a lot of hourly individuals who have less flexibility in scheduling. So I know issues around childcare are more relevant to them, but I also have situations where the issues might be tied more to issues of wellbeing around mental health and whether we're offering options there. So I think you provide more choice for your workforce and listen intently. The second part of your question is, how do you know if it's working or not? Well, that's the listening part. Staying in dialogue because it might work or it might work for pockets or it might work for a period of time and you have to be willing to change.

So when we first launched, it's interesting you asked this question, wellness days, we thought we were being really smart and we had the wellness days largely throughout the course of the summer because we thought, okay, it's summertime, kids are out of school. We had these key dates, holidays, it was great. However, what people said was, with too many days where I wasn't able to work a full week and had to try to catch up on work. Can you spread them all out? Can you actually put them in alternate months outside of some of these key days? So we listened to people and we gave you four and five new wellness days in the next year that were on different dates. I think if you can continue to listen and continue to adjust, and it's hard for organizations because you don't want something to feel like a takeaway.

So organizations, especially when you're large, we're a 50,000 person organization, we're a big company, you feel like you have to be fully committed to every decision. And so two things happen when you do that. It takes too long to make them. And you make decisions that are so watered down that they don't have a real impact to people. And I'm less willing to do that. I'd rather make them sooner, learn and make them more impactful. And you just have to be willing to course correct and change. And it comes down to people in my role, it's scarier. I'd much rather know that 50,000 people all agree. The problem is that, that will never happen.

Chris Riback: Alex, Andre said that, well there is not necessarily a one size fits all. But the one size fits all that I think I just heard from Andre is listening and being able to listen to your specific organization, which by the way is going to be different to JCPenney than it's going to be at one of JCPenney's competitors or is  going to be at a business in a different sector. I'm wondering, Alex, given what you do and the types of companies that you work with, does that resonate what Andre just said? Is listening key and is that the part that is able to go across sectors?

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes, I completely agree because C-Suite sometimes work and think in silos and oh, this is really a great idea or I did this as another company organization, you have to listen to the people. Just like we have our group of thinking and we think this is going to be great. You have no idea what it's like for an hourly worker who have to catch a bus to go to work, to JCPenney. That might not be your lived experience. Now we know that surveys is a type of listening, Andre. What other tools are you using at JCPenney to listen to your associates, to your customers, to your external stakeholders? What else are you doing?

Andre Joyner: Yes. So yes, on surveys and we do our associate opinion survey annually. I think there's a couple, I would say maybe more important because the associate opinion survey is once a year. So I got one time a year the year than 365 days to figure out whether that's still relevant to me and did I take the right actions? And by the time I've realized that I've either done it or not done it. I think what we try to do is on much shorter cycles, we'll create moments. It could be a moment where we simply pull people together after something happens externally and in society and other places and create listening sessions. So we do often listening sessions and anyone can spark a listening session. Our business resource teams, which are cultural affinity groups can spark a listening session. We can do listening sessions at the enterprise level across the group.

Anyone can kind of pull the string and create a moment because really what you want to make sure, this goes to the fourth quadrant of the associate value proposition. Empowerment and voice means that anyone and every voice and every person's voice matters. So you have to create a moment where anyone can create a moment for listening. So listening sessions are an easy way to do that because they're easy to pull together. And in some ways having these forms now virtually, it makes it even easier because you can really create those moments. I think getting out and about and traveling. I say this to people, yes, we're based in the Dallas Fort Worth area, but 95% of my workforce doesn't live in the Dallas Fort Worth area. They're in stores, they're in supply chain. I was in Bangalore last year.

They’re in different parts of the world. When you meet people in-person in their space, I think sometimes you get to a different level of connection than when there's distance. Just my personal experience that I find that there's depth that sometimes you can miss. So I try to mix the virtual with the in-person and an in-person at where they are. When I'm in a store walking a store, I get a very different experience than if you tell me about something when I'm in the corporate office, because I can see it real time. You can point it out to me. You can tell me it's dimly lit, lit in here and people don't feel great about it. But when you're in a store and it's dimly lit and the carpet is not the cleanest, that is a very different feeling about that. And so I like to create more of those moments where it's more tangible, the experience.

Dr. Alexandria White: I completely agree. Now I want to talk to you about all of these initiatives that JCPenney is doing. As a product junkie, so I've got to make a disclaimer. I'm a product junkie.

Andre Joyner: I love that.

Dr. Alexandria White: And I buy black girl sunscreen. I am anything that is dealing with black women, representation, companies that understand that there's different hues of our skin. So I would love to hear about some of the initiatives that JCPenney is doing just recently. There's so many companies, organization talking about diversity and beauty. So for instance, L'Oreal, they just unveiled a handheld computerized makeup applicator because it's designed for people with limited hand and arm mobility, accessibility in beauty. And we know that beauty is a multimillion-dollar business that JCPenney wants a part of.

Andre Joyner:                 That's right.

Dr. Alexandria White:    Only 3% of dermatologists are black. And so La Roche-Posay is helping educate, going to HBCUs and helping educate more black dermatologists. What is JCPenney doing in all of this, and how does it attract new and upcoming leaders to your organization?

Andre Joyner:                 Yes, and I'll talk broadly about let's say the diversity question in terms of things like are thereabouts line and our adaptive clothing line, which is a product line that has been really resonated with our customer base that you hit on something that I'm passionate about, and I'll take a little bit of an angle to it, which is we've been more of a front runner in the beauty space with JCPenney Beauty because our partnership with Thirteen Lune and the work that we're doing there extends, I think more than yes, how do we build awareness in these communities, but how do we build economic wealth, empowerment and networks for black and brown women? We can multiply the effort by helping to build something that extends beyond our organization.

So when you see black founders launching businesses at scale nationally within our organization, and for many of them it's the first time they've been at scale. And often larger organizations won't take the chance because they want to work with organizations with a bit more track record and sort of been there, done that. And we've taken a different approach. We've taken the approach that we will be smarter, better, and more connected to our customer when we pull in experts in the space who can really help make sure we are presenting products and services that matter to our core customer. And so that relationship has been tremendous for us. And the products and services that have resulted from that relationship have been tremendous for us. I feel the same way about salon.

I feel the same way about the fact that we have an advantage because how many other large retailers have salons? And how many black and brown women start businesses via salon and beauty. And so it's an opportunity for us to pull people in and allow them to launch their businesses. And you have to be comfortable that it doesn't mean they stay with you. They can build a client base up and launch a business and they may leave, and they may come back. I think there's power in our ability economically to impact the communities we support and serve. And that I think is a great differentiator for us. And that's more than education, because if that black woman can build a multimillion-dollar business, she hires black executives, she hires individuals in our organization that expand the opportunity and the wealth in this country. And so there's a bigger need in my opinion to have that impact.

Dr. Alexandria White:    In regards to your business resource groups, I know you have quite a bit at JCPenney, can you tell us about the one in regards to disability and things that you are doing to help amplify the voices in your community?

Andre Joyner:                 Yes, we do have a disabilities, a business resource team. And one of the reasons why we really, really value that partnership is when I was traveling our supply chain. When I first joined, I remember this, I was in Atlanta and I was walking the floor with a supervisor and I noticed several forklift operators and there were these blue lights on their forklifts. And I'm used to walking in supply chain facilities, but I'm not used to seeing the lights. And so I asked him, well, why do you have these blue lights? And he said, "Well, our forklift communities comprised of deaf individuals, and they preferred deaf overhearing impairs." He made sure I knew that. And I said, "Okay, help me to understand that." And this is at a time when it's been very, very hard to find supply chain workers and particularly forklift operators because of that skillset is really needed.

And we had a fully staffed forklift team of very talented individuals. And he said, "Well, I was going about to job fairs and other events trying to figure out how to staff this forklift team. And I came across a deaf individual who shared that he has the skillset, but no one will take a chance on the community." And this supervisor who was very, very smart, said, "Well, hold on. If you teach me what I need to do to make it easy for you to do your job, then you can come on board and we'll figure out how to make this work." So the deaf forklift operators made us smarter about what we needed to create in the environment for them to do the work. And we hired those individuals who, of course in those communities know others who have a similar skillset.

So we were able to staff our group in Atlanta based on that, who have been absolutely amazing, tremendous retention, tremendous productivity, and a group who is loyal to the brand because the brand has embraced them. And so that sparked for us this idea of what are the other personas or groups or communities across our network that we could find similar opportunities to tap into networks? And that idea was sparked from that event. And so that of abilities, BRT has helped make us smarter about building those personas across our organization. Because sometimes they're localized in certain communities and areas, and sometimes you might find national partnerships, but we've been leaning into our abilities group to help us think through that.

Dr. Alexandria White: I love that. I'm used to hearing business resource groups. I just want to make a correction, business resource teams.

Andre Joyner: Right.

Dr. Alexandria White: I actually like that in regards to, it's a team effort to increase the business. So I like that. Now, one last question before we go. We know that there is this recession cloud hanging over our heads and there's companies laying people off. We just did a podcast about how to be empathetic during layoffs. Now how are these initiatives being done, such a tight budget cut environment?

Andre Joyner: Yes, I actually think this is an opportunity for organizations like ours to differentiate themselves. Because if I care about the whole person, like I care about a family member, that's the sort of agnostic of the moment, right?

Dr. Alexandria White: Right.

Andre Joyner: Yes, we all in a household might tighten our budgets depending on what's happening in any given moment. But how I feel about the contribution the workforce makes to the success of an organization doesn't change even in tough times. I think you have to be as purposeful and sometimes even more purposeful, because if you are hurting as an organization for certain, your workforce is hurting.

Dr. Alexandria White: Correct.

Andre Joyner: So I think how you show up when people meet you the most, how you show up when people are most challenged is what they remember.

Dr. Alexandria White: That's right.

Andre Joyner: And so in these moments, I actually think it's an opportunity for us to build deeper and lasting relationships with our associates. And pay more attention to the fact of, as a customer, JCPenney is focused on delivering value right now, because what does a customer need when eggs and milk and gas-

Dr. Alexandria White: Oh, yes.

Andre Joyner: Right. They need value. They want a great experience, they want quality product and they want good prices. And so it's your opportunity to take share in the marketplace from individuals who aren't thinking about delivering value as significantly as we can.

Dr. Alexandria White: Wow. Thank you so much.

Chris Riback: And I think that like listening, you just identified another one size fits all opportunity, which is those types of activities that you've just described, they are agnostic to the moment.

Andre Joyner: Yes.

Chris Riback: They are evergreens.

Dr. Alexandria White: I'm going to put you on the spot here, Andre. Do you have any numbers for us that this has worked? Solid numbers showing that these initiatives are work, that they are being impactful?

Andre Joyner:                 Yes. Not being a public company, I can't give them to you.

Dr. Alexandria White: Okay. Oh, that's right.

Andre Joyner: Sorry. I can tell you, and you probably already have seen it, that JCP Beauty is launching across the country and that inclusive of our Thirteen Lune relationship. So we started with a set of pilot stores in 2022 and we actually took over the website for a number of days, the JCP website with beauty. And so we did a true launch and now we're scaling across the country and there's only one reason you would scale across the country in that way. You feel good about the progress you're making. It's a great question.

Dr. Alexandria White: All right.

Chris Riback: And I'm going to put you on the spot on a different topic in one moment, but to be clear on Alex 's question and you may or may not be able to talk about specific numbers. But as well the programs that you were talking about earlier in this conversation, some of the actual tactics that you've put in place around shared purpose, around wellbeing, around personal growth and development, around empowering individuals and voice, around your four quadrants: So one, I assume you have some type of numbers or metrics around retention. It is doing bottom line things for your business.

Andre Joyner: Yes.

Chris Riback: I'm assuming that's the case. And if it is, are those numbers that you're able to discuss at all or?

Andre Joyner: I mean, I can't at a high level actually, and you asked that question and so let me come back to it because we've had some real progress. We started particularly your point on things and some things I haven't talked about. We're launching an application that provides flexibility in scheduling and pay. So if you think about the uberization of work, one of the challenges you have in my world is historically I would want Alex to beat my scheduling needs. So I would say to her, I want you work for me if you can work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And she might initially really need a job. So she would say, okay.

But then over time she goes, I don't want to work every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I get it that it's retail. So you become less competitive with someone who can pick up a phone and take a ride share job and work when they want to work, and what have you. So we're also launching essentially a marketplace that allows you to swap shifts and get paid either in that same week or in that same day. Because what you really want people to be able to do is have choice, and option and flexibility. Because I'm much more likely to work a shift if I picked it.

Chris Riback: For sure.

Andre Joyner: I'm much more likely to show up when I chose. So, okay, Andre, why did you say that? Because Chris, I'll come back to your question because doing those things along with the other things I've talked about, what you've seen is a dramatic reduction in, I know it's going to sound like an odd connection, but over time costs associated with turnover. So what happens now is if you don't keep a core staff in stores and supply chain because you're not being flexible, you're not paying people on shorter cycles, they don't feel listened to by their leader, what happens is they leave.

The problem when they leave is that you have less experienced people, you have less experienced people, it takes longer to train them, it takes longer to ramp up, therefore your core staff has to work a lot more hours and it does a couple of different things. It turns them over. It reduces productivity because you have less experienced people. So it takes longer for hours to get our shipment because it takes longer for me to get that truck loaded because I have less experienced people in the distribution center, or the service level drops off because I have less experienced people with less tenured time.

So when you improve tenure and you improve productivity and you improve experience, you save costs on overtime because you have core people working and the more productive. You improve your customer SAT scores, which have gone up for us, an organization. So you save dollars and you improve service and ultimately that results in greater trips. Greater trips means growth in business. So what we are seeing in our organization, which is been really, really positive to see, are all of those metrics moving in the right direction. Largely because you have more experienced people who love the brand staying longer. It's not complicated, but it's just what happens when you do those things.

Chris Riback: Well, this data on organizational effectiveness, on the ways that you are figuring things out and solving difficult problems, it segues, believe it or not, to the topic that I would like to put you on the spot about. And it's my last question. Alex might have one after, but my question is about your mother. How does being the child of a mother who is the oldest of 11 children herself, how does it impact who you are and what you bring to work every day?

Andre Joyner: Well, there's not anything that's impacted me more than being raised by a single black woman. I mean that's just the in and of itself, especially when that woman was the oldest of 11. So a couple of different things. Everything I am and I do is tied to what she had shaped. I have two brothers. I only saw my mother on the weekends in our formative years because she worked when we were there. And so we would only see her at off hours on the weekend. So you learn to be self-reliant, you learn to be independent. You learn to answer the phone at eight o'clock every night, because that's the only way she knew you were safe. If you didn't pick that phone up at eight o'clock, that's going to be a problem. But I learned in my experience how to focus on really what matters.

So my formative years with my mother were about A, appreciating and valuing hard work, appreciating and valuing family, staying focused on what matters most to you and your work. Meaning, she wasn't a person that accepted excuses because she essentially was never really a child when you're oldest of 11. So she never had an opportunity to really have a childhood. So she was a no excuse household. So I have a no excuse personality. And so I'm a highly accountable person. I don't accept a lot in a way of excuses. I have to own my own solutions and I believe I work hard.

Chris Riback: And that's what I was hearing. Obviously I cheated and I've seen where you have talked about the-

Andre Joyner: I didn't know you were going to come with the mom question. That got me.

Chris Riback: Well, I didn't know either until I read about you. And obviously our parents are impactful to all of us in various ways, but it tied among the lessons that I read and I felt you took away from that experience. You're applying them to what you do every day, the problem-solving. And that's why what you were just saying a moment ago, those metric... In listening to you, I'm hearing a fellow who's implementing human solutions that are enabling the improvement of individual lives every day, whether that's through childcare or wellness or flexible workspace. But you're not doing it just to be a nice guy. You're doing it because of what your mother taught you, which is to solve problems, to-

Andre Joyner: Exactly right.

Chris Riback: To create organizational effectiveness. And so when you were just talking about that a moment ago, I knew that I was curious about that impact, but when I heard it, you brought that to life and you put it into action. And I'm meeting you right now for the first time, but it's my guess that that's what you got from your mother.

Andre Joyner: Absolutely. I appreciate that. Thank you.

Chris Riback: Yes, my pleasure. Alex, why don't you finish up with Andre. My work here is done.

Dr. Alexandria White: Thank you. Thank you, Andre. As we know our matriarchs, our parents, guardians, whoever have influenced us through our lives, impact how we show up at work. And so thank you for just being authentic, being an empathetic leader, which is what we need during this day and age. And so in the spirit of my grandmother, I will always be a loyal JCPenney customer. Thank you for leading the charge on building more inclusive workplaces. We appreciate you, we value you.

Andre Joyner: Thank you very much.

Chris Riback: Andre, thank you. Thank you for your insights. Thank you for taking the time with us today.

Andre Joyner: Thank you very much for having me.