Episode 6: Does McDonald’s CEO Deserve a Break Today?

What’s the difference between being “woke” and being “responsible”?

Transcript 

Chris Riback: I'm Chris Riback. This is Call In with Dr. Alexandria White. We discuss business leadership in our time of social change when to call in, when to call out, and how to build sustainable business value today.

Today's topic: Does McDonald's CEO deserve a break today? Before our conversation though, an ask from us to you. We hope you like these call in conversations. And if so, we'd appreciate if you take a moment, go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, and if you're so moved, leave a five-star review. The ratings really matter. They go a long way to helping other people find the podcast.

Dr. Alexandria White: Our show is brought to you by Clayton, Dubilier & Rice, which is committed to a more diverse and inclusive future. Let's call in.

Chris Riback: Hi, Dr. White. Great to talk with you again.

Dr. Alexandria White: Hello, Chris.

Chris Riback: I fear we both may be hungry after today's conversation. I mean, who couldn't go for a Quarter Pounder and fries right about now?

Dr. Alexandria White: I completely agree.

Chris Riback: Let's get into the conversation and maybe let's quickly establish the context just in case any listeners haven't followed all of the details. Last April in Chicago, seven year old Jaslyn Adams was killed in her father's car. It was a gang-related shooting outside of McDonald's restaurant. Also, 13 year old, Adam Toledo was fatally shot by police a month earlier and the two cases got connected in terms of youths being killed in Chicago, etc. Now, because of a Freedom of Information Act request, a text that was sent to Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot by McDonald's CEO, Chris Kempczinski has been released. In it, Kempczinski said, the parents of the two children, "Failed those kids." The outcry against Kempczinski was immediate, including from Jaslyn's mother and 12 organizations, which included the Service Employees International Union, the SEIU, many people called on Kempczinski to resign. Instead, Kempczinski apologized for comments that were, "Wrong, plain and simple."

He continued, "I am learning from this." This was in a note he wrote to McDonald's employees and, "I believe that starts with more listening and learning from more people whose life experiences are different from my own." He'll also meet with the parents. In response, critics of the critics to Kempczinski wrote that the woke police hit McDonald's and the fast food chain'sCEO was pummeled for a politically incorrect text. Coming to the defense of the McDonald's CEO. Alex, are those the facts as you know them? 

Dr. Alexandria White: Well, Chris, you did a great overview of the facts. Kudos to you. But I have to-

Chris Riback: Thank you.

Dr. Alexandria White:   I have to do a disclaimer. I am from Chicago. I was born and raised there. I have a brother who has been a part of the Chicago Police Department going on 20 years. I might have a personal connection to this, to this particular incident.

Chris Riback: I think as you know, but so that we're full disclosure. I, too, am from Chicago, though, I do not have any relatives in law enforcement, but yes, I hear you on that. Chicago is certainly a place where those of us who have been born and raised there, we are Chicagoans for life.

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes.

Chris Riback: They don't call it “Sweet Home Chicago” for nothing.

Dr. Alexandria White:   Definitely. I believe our listeners should have that information because it allows them to see us not only as hosts, but connected to the work that we do here in this podcast.

Chris Riback: For sure.

Dr. Alexandria White: When I heard about Kempczinski's comments, I paused. Of course, I received text messages, screenshots. "Did you see what the McDonald's CEO said?" Etc. I paused and I looked at his comment and I read his comment and I read his comment again, and I understood the outcry, but I also understood what he was trying to relay. That is where it comes into question. Was it timely? Was it wrong? Was it right? Even, was it necessary? Those were my reactions when I heard and read the response, his apology, and even how it came about and we definitely want to discuss.

Chris Riback: Let's start with his text to Mayor Lightfoot.

Dr. Alexandria White: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Chris Riback: Was what he wrote problematic? If so, should he have apologized for the text itself?

Dr. Alexandria White: I think it was problematic in regards to his wording and how he approached the situation. But I think it's more complex than that. You have to understand the history of McDonald's in Chicago and, and African American culture. I mean, it's the historical part. I want to relay that because maybe our listeners will understand why with so much outrage from victims' parents, from local and social advocates. In 1968, Herman Petty was the first African American to own a McDonald's franchise. Think about that, 1968, civil rights movement, all that's going on. The reason he was able to get that franchise is because after Dr. King was assassinated, there was some type of movement to take back black communities. He started training on how to be a franchise owner. He found a location and he eventually established, listen to this, the National Black McDonald's Operation Association, which still goes on today. And so that became the black voice within the McDonald's corporation. There is a complex relationship between fast food, black neighborhoods and black health.

Chris Riback: For sure.

Dr. Alexandria White: Many of the people who were outraged were thinking, how does the CEO of McDonald's have the audacity to talk about Black families and you have made your profit off of the backs of Black and Brown families, especially in inner cities. There is where the historical context lies with McDonald's.

Dr. Alexandria White: Growing up in Chicago, I remember seeing more McDonald's than grocery stores, right? McDonald's, I'm thinking of my neighborhood right now. There's, I can think of three in the vicinity, but there's no grocery stores or there's lots of food deserts in the inner city.

Chris Riback: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dr. Alexandria White: This is where my thought process went personally in regards to that. There's that complex relationship and I just wanted to put that out there. When he apologized or reading the text, so I'm thinking, did he call Mayor Lightfoot? Was this an exchange? All of those came-

Chris Riback: You mean what prompted him to text her?

Dr. Alexandria White: Correct. What prompted him to text her?

Chris Riback: Is your concern around what he wrote, the content of what he wrote and/or the lack of nuance on what he wrote? Meaning, the comment itself that the parents failed those kids?

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes. He put, "Failed those kids." With no consideration of overall issues in the neighborhoods, I think he just painted a broad brush and that was problematic. Of course, we don't know the full exchange, but painting a broad brush, added to that it was just a one idea or those parents were at fault. I think it was just hurtful.

Dr. Alexandria White: That he was not empathetic in regards to those incidents.

Chris Riback: Let me ask you, because what we do as you know, in this podcast is take news headlines, what's happening in the real world and try to distill lessons for business leaders. Is it fair? Is one lesson potentially, and we'll get, of course, you know I'm not going to have a conversation with you and not get to talk about Dr. White's wisdom, you know that. Is one lesson: , recognize your role? He is the CEO; he made a comment and text where one uses shorthand where nuance and context is necessarily missing because of the medium that is being used is one takeaway. Don't try to express complex ideas in a three word, five word text to the mayor of a city?

Dr. Alexandria White: I completely agree. We're going to talk a little bit about where he went wrong in that, but I completely agree, especially with such a difficult topic.

Chris Riback: Yes. You have explained, in my opinion, whether what he wrote was problematic and you have said, "Yes, he should have apologized for that, as he did." I would assume that part of the reason that, that, what did you think of his apology? Did his apology address the nuance and the context that one might wish had been in the text itself?

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes, I agree. His apology was sufficient. However, it went-

Chris Riback: Sufficient is a, an underwhelming word, which I am assuming is how you mean it?

Dr. Alexandria White: That, it is underwhelming with this apology, because we know we have seen apology, after apology, after apology. But what I do like that he did is that he's going to do something actionable, which is meet with the parents. I think that is more important than those words that he wrote. He is taking action to meet with the parents of those murdered children. He's not sitting in his ivory tower. He plans to hold a meeting with those parents to hear their lived experience.

Chris Riback: Yes.

Dr. Alexandria White: Be, to understand their lived experience. That, in a nice, so that is the most important thing to me is that he is meeting with the parents.

Chris Riback: Alex, what defines sufficient?

Dr. Alexandria White: I think my response in using that word to describe the apology comes from just seeing so many apologies in similar nature. I think we, as a culture have seen that apology from a celebrity, from another CEO or someone else. That's just sufficient to me. However, I do give him the benefit of adding that actionable step, which is, I'm going to meet with the parents. That's how I defined it as sufficient.

Chris Riback: What makes a good apology?

Dr. Alexandria White: A good apology starts with I. It starts with, I apologize. In addition to, I recognize that I was wrong. This is what I plan to do, and I am learning and these are the actions that I plan to do. But a good apology always starts with what I am taking responsibility for.

Chris Riback: The woke police hit McDonald's? What's the difference between being woke and being responsible?

Dr. Alexandria White: Okay. Woke is the buzzword, right?

Chris Riback: Yes.

Dr. Alexandria White: It actually started in the 1930s with a phrase in the African-American Vernacular English, AAVE. I grew up hearing it in songs. My uncles, my dad would say, stay woke all the time. It just energized or became more prevalent in today's society. There's songs, there's T-shirts and so I want you to understand-

Chris Riback: I was going to say, I sure wish that you had contacted me 20, 30 years ago. We had trademarked this thing and printed T-shirts.

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes. Yes.

Chris Riback: Okay. Anyhow, that's water under the bridge, Alex, I forgive you.

Dr. Alexandria White: The origin of the word, it started in the black community. It's like to highlight that you're aware of what's going on. There's social and racial environmental injustices. You've got to stay woke. It's an alert. It's the ringing of the bell. It came from the African American community as a way, as a rallying call that you must stay awake, you must stay alert and you must stay active. Right. The difference between being responsible is, I know a lot of people, they're just good humans. They might not have the vernacular. They might not have the terminology on diversity, equity, and inclusion. They might not know all of their social justice advocates in their neighborhood, but they know right from wrong. They respect each other. They respect people. That's the part of being responsible human. Has nothing to do with one versus the other. Woke is a rallying call. Criminal justice-

Chris Riback: Is your argument that his response, it might have been sufficient and not as robust as you might have advised, but okay suffice? It met sufficient, that level, but he, is it your point of view that he acted responsibly and was not simply responding to the "woke crowd"?

Dr. Alexandria White: I think he was showing responsibility as being the CEO of a major global company, because his actions from the text show that he might not be woke, right? But at least he's being responsible in his actions to correct his wrong.

Chris Riback: Should he respond to the criticism? That he's simply a victim of the woke crowd and wink-wink, we understand you got to do what you got to do, because otherwise you're going to get in trouble with the woke crowd. But should he respond to that portion of it to help keep the record straight?

Dr. Alexandria White: I don't think so. I don't think he owes the critics a platform. I think he is being a responsible CEO who is valuing the communities that his businesses makes profit in, and that they have a connection to. Because let's not forget, McDonald's during George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery as well as Breonna Taylor, they did an initiative. They expressed solidarity with the black community in June, 2020. It was a statement -- “They were one of us” statement --  and they collaborated with different celebrities and social justice. That was in June, 2020. It's important that he continues to be responsible, not only in his words, in being in solidarity with the black community, but also as a responsible CEO.

Chris Riback: Is this an opportunity then, are you saying for him?

Dr. Alexandria White: Oh, there's always opportunities in mistakes. It's an opportunity for him, once again, to hear the lived experiences of the people that he targeted in his statement. Always, always an opportunity to do better.

Chris Riback: Okay. I want to ask you about a component of that, because that was a part of his apology that I wondered about. As we noted, one of the things that he wrote to the McDonald's employees was, "I am learning from this. I believe that starts with more listening and learning from more people whose life experiences are different from my own." I'm wondering, does that suffice? Is it sufficient for a person in that role, CEO of McDonald's given the history of McDonald's that you described, is it sufficient for a person in that role to state that he needs to do listening and learning from more people whose life experiences are different from my own? Is it reasonable for outsiders to say, good for you for wanting to learn, but the time to do that learning is not in the McDonald's CEO chair. You learn that from a different role from which you might then elevate to the CEO chair.

Dr. Alexandria White: Okay.

Chris Riback: What do you think about that component of what he said?

Dr. Alexandria White: I'm thinking of myself. I've been doing this work, teaching it, facilitating workshops, giving information on podcasts. Do I know everything about diversity, equity, and inclusion, social justice? Absolutely not. 16 years of research and listening to people's lived experiences, connecting them to my lived experiences, I still consider myself a humble student. Now, in regards to a McDonald's CEO chair that people expect to not make a mistake, to know everything. I believe in giving people grace in this regard. There is not a diversity finish line. There is not a social justice finish line. It is continuously learning. Now, I do think that if you're going to be in such a prominent and intentional position, that you should have a baseline knowledge of just some basic foundational things regarding diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Chris Riback: You're not getting CEO role of McDonald's if you don't know how hamburgers are made, if you don't know what the supply chain of potatoes looks like.

Dr. Alexandria White: Correct.

Chris Riback: Is it part of the requirements to get the role?

Dr. Alexandria White: I think it needs to be. I mean, how awful and embarrassing right now that McDonald's looks in the neighborhood. If you just had a little bit more multicultural competency or coaching or consulting, which we'll talk a little bit more about, he might not have worded the text as he did. Yes, to be a CEO of a company, you have to be educated and strategic and knowledgeable. I think it's really important for CEOs, business leaders to understand that multicultural humility and understanding diversity, equity, and inclusion is a new objective that is necessary in order to keep your company out of the news cycle, as well as increase morale and overall productivity of your workforce.

Chris Riback: What about McDonald's head of HR or general counsel or head of compliance? Should someone have saved Kempczinski from himself? When a Black girl is shot in your company's parking lot, the parking lot of one of your stores, should there then be a playbook, a conversation that of, okay, here are the ways that we are going to address this because this terrible human situation happened on our property?

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes, there should be policies and procedures that would be public relations, compliance, general counsel. Completely agree that they should have some type of policy, public sentiment. I want to go back to, should someone have saved Kempczinski from himself? Not at all. He made the mistake. He took it upon himself being responsible and he issued the apology. Now that you've issued the apology, let's get to work. Let's do some actionable steps and that's what he plans to do.

Chris Riback: Can we turn to my favorite part now?

Dr. Alexandria White: Oh, of course. Of course.

Chris Riback: Let's go to Dr. White's wisdom. Alex, in thinking about the conversation, I find myself wondering what's the difference between being woke and being responsible? As a subset of that, is there room to self-identify as not woke? Is that okay without having to cross into being a jerk or being offensive? Can you be not woke, but not subsequently offend people around you? Why does all of this matter from a business point of view? 

Dr. Alexandria White: Okay. That's a lot to unpack. As I mentioned earlier, being woke is being alert to racial and social justices. If you understand the origin, then there seems to be no offense because we want you, we want anyone to be aware of racial and social injustices. Anyone who's trying to spin that, I find that it's ingenuous and I find that it has nothing to do with the origin of the word. I've always said that there's a difference between woke and staying woke. I know a lot of people who are "woke". I know a lot of people who are "woke", but are they really doing the work? In order to stay woke, it means that you are doing actionable things because this concept is ever-changing. In regards to being responsible, we all have a responsibility to just be better humans.

That responsibility comes in many forms. Let's talk about the workplace. That  responsibility for people who might not even be woke or understand what they're doing, it shows up in forms of inclusive practices in your workplace, making sure that mothers have a place to go if they are breastfeeding. Making sure that you have maternity and paternity leaves of absences. Listening to the lived experiences of your employees so that you'd better understand how they show up in your companies. Those are responsible practices. It's being a better company. Nothing to do with woke, being woke, staying woke, just being responsible. Then let's go to those who self-identify as not being woke.

Sure. There's lots of people that I know that I mentioned earlier. I wouldn't categorize them as not woke, of what I will categorize them as being is curious. Alex, I don't understand this. Can you educate me? Alex, what do you think about this topic? I don't quite understand it, there're some nuances. Can you give me some resources? That's not being offensive. That's not being a jerk. It's being curious. There is room to be not woke without being offensive. We are all works in progress. As a diversity, equity, and inclusion strategist, I continue to be a humble student. Always learning, always evolving. That cycle of learning should also be something that business leaders, CEOs, CHROs should always be doing. I hope I answered that question.

Chris Riback: You did. Give me, if you would then any specific tactics?

Dr. Alexandria White: Okay. My first advice is to acknowledge and apologize. What are the elements of a good apology? Definitely using I, not, we. I, as CEO, as founder made a mistake. I am learning. I want to meet with or implement or help or advocate. I, you are understanding the hurt or the wrongdoing that your actions might have caused to someone or a group of people. That's the good framework for an apology. Taking ownership, acknowledging, saying what you did and what you are going to do in the future to correct that. Next, I would love to speak to the McDonald's CEO and unpack some things in a personal reflection. If this happens to you or you've been called out, what have you learned from this experience to make me a better, well-rounded business leader? That's just personal reflection. It doesn't take a policy. It doesn't take a company-wide meeting. It's you doing the work, right?

Chris Riback: Yes.

Dr. Alexandria White: Then this is the practical thing. When I hear CEOs, business leaders, prominent people, celebrities make mistakes like this, I always say, do they have a trusted advisor in their personal network?

Chris Riback: Do they have Dr. White on speed dial? That's my question.

Dr. Alexandria White: I think that, do they have a diversity, equity, and inclusion advisor or someone to guide them or someone to send them little tidbits? I often think about that. I know a lot of these companies, they rely on third party consultants like myself, to help them with company initiatives, strategic plans, but aren't they individually doing the work? I know that might be cumbersome because on top of running multimillion dollar businesses, you want me to continue to learn and, about diversity, equity, and inclusion. Yes, yes I do.

Chris Riback: Yes. But I want you to learn about supply chain challenges.

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes.

Chris Riback: I want you to learn about plant-based meats and new food offerings. Yes. I want you to, I want you to learn about DE&I. I want you to learn about all components of what it takes to run a successful business.

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes. Yes, completely. When you make a mistake, you take ownership, but let's be proactive in that. That's number three. Do you have a trusted DE&I advisor, or are you constantly being educated, not only things that are tangible for your business, but also those soft skills. Those things that you might need to know when you are speaking with people. Then the fourth thing is being careful what you put in writing. The rapport between the mayor, and the McDonald's CEO, we don't know their relationship, right? We don't know if they're friends, if this is a list of exchanges, but guess what? It was made public. Always understanding that text messages, emails, even something as simple as being recorded in a restaurant, it can happen. Then of course, taking action. Speaking to people who have been impacted, making policies and procedures so that it will never happen again. Then understanding the mistake that you made so that it will not happen again. Understanding the mistake that you made so that it will not happen again.

Chris Riback: That is a terrific list. First of all, the definition: “Being woke is being alert.”

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes.

Chris Riback: Being alert to racial and social injustices. Being not woke is okay, but being not curious is not okay.

Dr. Alexandria White: Correct.

Chris Riback: I love that distinction. Then your list; acknowledge and apologize, take the time for personal reflection, do that work, maintain, keep, find a trusted DEI advisor in your personal network, be careful what you put into your writing, and when you do apologize, don't just apologize, take action. It's a great list for Dr. White's wisdom. Alex, thank you. From this conversation I am now, my mind is now filled, but I am hungry for lunch. Talking about McDonald's will do that to you.

Dr. Alexandria White: Yes. Let's go get some lunch, Chris.

Chris Riback: Okay. I'll talk with you soon. Thank you, Alex.

Dr. Alexandria White: All right.